In the first Red Light, Green Light call of 2024, Jason Borer presented an acquisition opportunity for a well-established kitchen and bath remodeling contractor based in Northern California. With a 30-year history and thousands of completed projects, the business has earned a sterling reputation in the Central Valley. It benefits from a growing customer base consisting of families relocating to suburban areas and repeat clients who appreciate the company’s quality craftsmanship. The business features a premium 6,000-square-foot showroom located on a prominent road, offering significant untapped potential for retail sales and a competitive edge in the market.

Jason, partnering with Ronald McDonald, brings a unique combination of skills to the acquisition. Jason’s background in marketing, advertising, and growth strategy aligns well with Ron’s deep construction expertise and operational experience. Together, they plan to scale and modernize the business, which has largely operated as a lifestyle venture under its current ownership. The current owner has taken a passive approach to growth, relying primarily on word-of-mouth referrals to generate revenue while maintaining a steady $3 million in annual sales. While successful, this approach leaves significant opportunities on the table, particularly in marketing, retail, and strategic partnerships.

The remodeling market in Northern California is positioned for modest growth at a projected rate of 3.5%, bolstered by rising disposable incomes, consumer spending, and the aging housing stock, which creates consistent demand for home upgrades. Despite some economic headwinds, the business benefits from its established reputation and premium service offerings. Jason emphasized that competition in the region is a strength rather than a weakness, signaling robust consumer demand and providing valuable opportunities to learn from competitors’ successes and failures.

The financial health of the business is solid, with annual revenues trending upward and EBITDA expected to exceed $500,000. However, Jason’s analysis suggests that discretionary expenses—such as the owner’s personal spending—have depressed profitability. Adjusting for these add-backs could bring adjusted EBITDA closer to $700,000 or more. The asking price for the business and real estate combined is $2.5 million, with $1.6 million attributed to the showroom property. This valuation is seen as reasonable, particularly given the value of the real estate and the scalability of the operation.

Jason outlined a clear and compelling growth strategy, which includes geographic expansion, the introduction of retail sales, and the implementation of a robust marketing plan to drive customer acquisition. He also highlighted opportunities to establish partnerships with high-end general contractors and builders while improving operational efficiencies through modern systems and software. The addition of a dedicated sales team, even on a fractional basis initially, is expected to drive revenue growth and help the business reach its potential.

The group responded positively to the presentation, praising Jason’s thorough analysis and vision for growth. Concerns included the need to address low margins, recalibrate working capital, and ensure a smooth transition of sales responsibilities currently handled by the owner. Overall, this deal was viewed as a strong opportunity, particularly with Jason and Ron’s combined expertise. Their plan to modernize, expand, and market the business positions it for significant growth and long-term success.

Full Transcript:

Happy Thursday. Happy New Year, guys. Hope all is well. Our first red light, green light call of twenty twenty four. I wanna get straight into, into deals. Screenshot is enabled, buddy.

Over to you.

Right on. Thank you so much, Carl. Welcome to everyone to twenty twenty four. I hope everyone brought their Spartan Warrior helmet. I myself am feeling like King Leonidas today.

So let me go ahead and share my screen. Alright. Can y’all see a colorful deck that says Belmont Group?

Give me a thumbs up if we got this.

Right on, thank you, David Evans, for a quick respond. Thank you, Yvonne. Appreciate that. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jason Borer.

I represent a top coat that, Christine and I founded called Belmont Group. It’s great to be back with you guys to kick off the quarter like this. You guys may remember I was here speaking to you last about an opportunity in propeller manufacturing. I’ve come across a couple times with opportunities in aerospace.

There will be more to come in that whole swim lane, for us. But today, we’re gonna focus on a less discussed aspect of our lifestyle, and that would be the kind of passion that we have and the experience that we bring to the world of home services. So and I became homeowners, a while back now. It was a very seminal moment in our lives, the ability to have and build a home as we were looking to start a family.

We’ve now got one twenty one month year old here with us. We’ve got another on the way. And the ability to build something special that really feels comfortable and very unique to us and through our home has always been something that’s really been there to speak to us in a a lane where we contribute a lot of value.

So today, we’re presenting to you an opportunity in a kitchen and bath remodeling contractor, but I’m not alone. He’s not on the call today. Had a bit of a, family, emergency that he’s gotta take care of, but I’ll be partnering with Ronald McDonald. So in the context of this deal, I have my own experience that I bring to home services.

I have extensive experience in marketing and advertising as well as technologies. So you can really think of me as a growth and scale component for businesses whose core competencies, foundational capabilities are solid. Ron himself has owned just about every type of construction business and operated about every type of construction business. He brings a wealth of experience to the table, very tactile technical knowledge.

It’s gonna be valuable to us in the context of this acquisition.

From a snapshot view, I like including this slide to just give you a feel for the deal. I’m trending all along the lines to be a three million dollar top line business. The revenue continues to trend upward, upward, as well as the, adjusted EBITDA on a nice stable curve. We’ll discuss more about that and what we expect over the the years post acquisition as well as our growth strategy in a second.

But I’m gonna give you a little flavor for the business. So kitchen and bathroom modeling contractor, pretty straightforward. This is a kitchen and bath contractor with a thirty year history and thousands of jobs covering the Central Valley in Northern California. Their customer base is a growing influx of single family home buyer coming in from major NorCal cosmopolitan hubs as well as return clients.

This business has been around long enough to see sort of the full life cycle of many of its customers, customers who were served. Now their their children and their families are coming back for either reduce given the the tenure or new business. None of the families are moving back towards a more suburban area.

In sales and marketing, the operation enjoys a really certainly reputation. We checked a lot of the the reviews, a lot of the customer feedback, done a little bit of secret shopping, and that’s really driving a good word-of-mouth referral. We’ll understand a bit more why that’s important when we go into the market analysis. And one of the competitive advantages is we have an immaculate six thousand square foot storefront with an exceptional product display on a very prominent road that underscores the kind of premium product and service offerings we bring into the table. Let’s talk a bit more about the market overview.

The growth rate comes in at about three point five, with the kitchen and bathroom modeling market expecting to experience modest growth over the next three years. We’ve got some mixed signals emerge emerging from a couple different places. But a couple key factors that are influencing the market. One, the the housing market is pretty stable. It’s, a growing housing market that’s gonna provide a solid foundation for the kind of remodeling activity that we bring initially as a core competency.

It currently is experiencing some headwinds. We’ve discussed that on this, forum before, but it’s not expected to experience a significant downturn, and that’s gonna support the kind of continued demand that we expect to serve. Consumer spending, we do see rising disposable income in the area, especially with a new influx of the kind of customer base that we can expect to serve. And there’s a continued focus on home improvement, and that bodes well for the kind of spend we’d expect to see come towards our business here.

We do wanna, of course, give a nod to the inflationary pressures that could dampen consumer spending and impact the market. We’ve got a couple ideas about how we might mitigate that in our business plan and our growth strategy. Probably most important for and most relevant for this deal is the aging housing stock in the US, and that presents a significant opportunity for us. As homeowners are looking to update and refresh their older homes, that really gives us an opportunity to step in and serve our consumer base like we have not before.

I will point your direction to the right. This is a local market analysis, and what you can see right off the bat, it’s a pretty competitive market. Now I love a competitive market for two reasons. It means, one, you’re seeing a signal of consumer interest.

If you can support this robust of an array of local businesses who serve similar functions and similar markets, that means you’ve got a strong demand in the area.

Two, it gives you a lot to learn from. You’re not going at this alone. You can learn a lot from what others have tried, where they’ve succeed seated, where they failed, and that really gives you an increased runway to really pilot your growth plans, your business plans, and where you expect to play and win. So those are the two reasons we, really like a competitive market.

I’ll go into a bit about the growth strategy. So we do believe that this is a strong, stable company. We’ve got a thirty year tenure, backpack, great sterling reputation, good word-of-mouth.

And we’ve identified really five primary arenas where we expect to play and win. Geographical expansion. We see it doing well here in a competitive market. That bodes well for a sort of, you know, let’s let’s really blueprint this and expand it in other locations where we see similar leading indicators of success.

Retail sales. To this point, this business has become somewhat of a lifestyle business, post, some of the the events of a COVID world. So retail sales have not yet been explored, but we have some pretty significant opportunity with the kind of showroom we’ve got available to us. Additionally, we were talking a bit about, okay.

Well, how can we mitigate the idea that we might see a softening in the kind of spending in our direct to consumer approach to this point. That’s where partnerships unexplored partnerships in a rapidly, expanding area with builders, with general contractors, and other contractors become so important to the kind of growth strategy we’re bringing to the table.

And we mentioned the idea of direct to consumer. Right now, this is a very classic example of word-of-mouth referrals really serve as well. We have not begun to explore the additional opportunities with both direct and social media marketing. So there are is a array of marketing that we have available to us.

And, of course, I mentioned this is a lifestyle business. There is an opportunity for foundational efficiency improvements, And we’ve outlined some of these immediate to one year ideas here, systems and software. We can map thirty years of knowledge to actual systems who will allow us to follow-up on on, repeat business or missed opportunities. Retail.

We talked a bit about this. We’re gonna expand our focus on retail and really leverage the buying power that we have here to expand existing brand relationships, marketing, direct mails, targeted digital, out of home, and new media. These are untapped content channels that the seller has begun to explore and sees leading indicators that will serve him. But but we have the experience to say we know how to dial that in.

Or sales and services, dedicated sales and training resources are gonna support a larger backlog of business that could have us booked well in advance of six months out.

Do we have a sales team already?

We do not have a sales team to this point.

Okay. How how do they sell? Is it just owner, like, doing those sales? Or there’s nobody else in the business that’s doing that?

Yeah. So there’s no one else in the business who’s really pitching that. It’s been the owners at this point, and this is a great question. And that’s also sort of where the showroom is coming to play. He he, not to really generalize it, but he sort of lets business happen to him, rather than an intentional approach to sales and marketing.

Yep. Okay. Alright.

Yeah. Great question.

Here’s, some immediate, bullet points about where we expect to expand out that we sort of covered in our growth strategy overview, expanding our partnerships with high end general contractors.

We’re seeing a similar growth pattern, in this location that I see down here in Southern California.

Large influx from the major cosmopolitan hubs of Los Angeles, San Diego, more towards ourselves in the Inland Empire, and we see what used to be classically small businesses really exploding. I saw this happen when I grew up in Orange County. It’s happening here. It’s happening where this is.

And, of course, expanding our social media efforts, and expanding our products and services to include wine cellars, bars, outdoor kitchens, closets, as well, closets and cabinetry.

Jason, can I ask a question?

Yeah. Go for it.

So but when you say retail sales, are you saying retail sales of of products directly to consumers, or you mean retail sales of what? Are you what do you mean by that?

Yeah. So it’s a re primarily at the onset, it’s a retail sales of product directly to consumers.

Like kitchen and bathroom finished products?

Yeah.

Okay.

Got it.

Yeah. Great question. Appreciate that. Alright. A bit about the financial did I hear another question?

No. No. Keep going.

Right on. A bit about the financial projections. As it stands, the business is doing well. It’s healthy, stable, and we expect to see it across the, you know, three year trajectory continue that way.

Right? And so moving its way neatly towards more than four million top line, this is without a growth strategy implemented. If we were to come in and just say, great, seller, it it’s been real awesome. Enjoy your new status as president of your local country club.

True story, by the way. This is what we’d expect to see. But with our growth strategy implemented in just some rough conservative numbers, we really feel that there’s room to move this closer to the eight million mark. Likely above that, but, again, we wanted to be a bit conservative just based on what we see and given some unknowns in the market.

And with that, I can turn this over to our one sheet.

Quick note, and this is a bummer. Something went bump in the night.

So the SBA box over there is is giving us a little bit of attitude this morning, but I’m still happy to Don’t worry don’t worry about it.

Yeah. So, again, you get a bit of a deeper look at the, sort of deal in a box slide that we’ve got here, presenting the same information, steady growth across year two zero, up towards the three million mark. We are on track to exceed that closer to three dot five, come the end of the year. And, some interesting notes about the add backs and take backs, those are still pending. What we have learned, as recently as this week is we’ve discovered there’s there’s roughly in excess of one million dollars, in seller’s discretionary earnings.

They were used to do things like build a beautiful house, buy a lovely piece of jewelry for his wife.

So at this time, we’re now looking to to sort of wrap back on some of those expenses and get a nice itemized list together with our seller and his CPA.

We’ll touch on that a bit in a in a minute as well. The history and the brief summary, we went over that a little bit. This salary is more our classic persona looking to retire. Problem aware, of course, he’s working with a broker to sort of get ahead of that idea. He’s already moved neatly into his role as a president of his local country club. It is a clearly defined niche at this time, nice and stable, good core foundational capabilities.

The biggest strength, we’ve got the showroom that we can leverage and really hope to start playing in more of the big box store sort of territory.

Our biggest weakness, that heavy competition. Right? That’s a a blessing and a bane, because it gives us a lot to learn with, but it does mean we need to show up ready to play all out in our local market if we expect to really win and establish a name for ourselves ahead of expansion.

The biggest offer opportunity for growth, again, we’ve sort of wrapped it down to those six swim lanes, including retail, marketing, sales, geographic expansion, and foundational capability. And the the biggest threat, is really the kitchen crate, a local competitor. They’ve got really dialed in operations.

Again, that’s sort of a two sided coin. We could learn from that or we could be eaten by it. And, of course, the the current economy. There’s a softening in the market that we do have to acknowledge.

Asia, the business is thirty three years. Our salary is fifty eight. Looking to move into retirement.

Right now, the asking price is sitting at two dot five, and that’s split across two categories. You’ve got the real estate at one dot six and then the actual business value.

Now the business value is you’ll see on this one sheet relatively close to the kind of business value they’re asking for. So that’s that’s always nice to see when we run the calculations using the one sheet. The business value does net out to work in the same fashion that we’d expect to pay.

Meaning The two point five sorry.

Two point five million does include the real estate. Correct?

That’s correct. Great question.

Right. Okay. And then do they wanna sell the real estate to you, or would there be an option for you to lease the real estate and just buy the business?

That’s an interesting one. We have not yet explored that. Currently, they’re looking to sell the real estate as well.

Okay. Alright. Cool. Alright.

We haven’t any anything that would say they’re not open to it.

We’ve got a pretty good relationship with the seller to this point.

It is a broker deal, but that broker has been, you know, good to work with to this point. That can change at any minute as we’ve seen in the past, but that’s essentially where that stands.

Okay. Perfect. Alright. Yeah.

Alright. Cool. Well, let me give you my feedback on this, and then we’ll we’ll go around the room. I do like this deal. I love the industry.

I I think typically very high end remodeling businesses like this, that that you’re not dealing typically with price sensitive customers.

I don’t like the current margins. I think the margins are low, for this type of business.

And it’s as you say, this is a market that’s growing at nineteen percent, And these guys are only growing at three point five percent. That was in their forecast. So your typical lifestyle, business, your typical lifestyle business owner, and I think this is a great opportunity to get in there, put a proper sales and marketing team in, and really kind of scale this up. So I love your ideas on this and what you’re gonna do. I I think potentially you could roll up around this type of industry.

I could see you even acquiring, like, a granite manufacturer as well, because I think granite’s gonna be a big part of the the cost of sales for this.

And I think the valuation is is really sensible. I think whether you buy the real estate or or you don’t, I think, you know, if it’s it’s doing, you know, half a million dollars and, you know, you’ve not, even put in add backs yet.

So, you know, if you’re looking at six, seven hundred thousand dollars of adjusted EBITDA, once all the add backs have settled, to buy a business like that with one point six million dollars of real estate is is is a pretty good deal.

I think, you know, the the the seller psychology is average for this deal. It’s not super high, so that might stop you getting super creative.

Probably might have to be an SBA type deal. I think the SBA would, would look very, very favorably on this type of business. Revenues are growing. Cash flows are growing at a higher rate.

It’s got, very low concentration of customer. I I think the only the only fly on this deal for me is that the owner’s doing the selling. Right? So I think if if you can get a decent handover period, with this deal and then you can systematize that sales and marketing process, you know, with your own team, then, I think this could be a very nice business.

So that that’s my take on it.

We’ll we’ll, if you’ve got questions on this, I know some of you have, get your hands up. I don’t think Jeremy’s on the call. Let’s go to Kyle and then to Sarkis, and then we’ll open it up, for questions. Kyle, what do you think?

Sure. So I like the deal. Again, I like the space and great deck and presentation, by the way. It’s a really good one to start off the year with.

I think the valuation’s great, especially if you’re saying that the SDE is potentially even higher than the adjusted EBITDA. I mean, if the real estate’s worth one six, you’re buying this business for and I’m assuming twenty three was a good year. You’re buying the business for, I mean, less than two times EBITDA, in a good space. So there’s not really not not a lot to like.

If you wanted to get really nitpicky, you could say the cash on the balance sheet’s low, but that would really be the only the only thing I see that’s any sort of a red flag, and it’s not even really a red flag at that. Nice job. Nice deal. I’d be a a pretty high green light on this.

Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. Sarkis?

Yeah. Happy New Year, everybody. I agree with most of your comments there, Carl. I think this is building a big business, you know, with great potential for growth. One question I would, throw out there in the mix is the inventory number. That was a little bit low for me, especially if they’ve got a, you know, they’ve got a showroom consult. I would expect to see a little bit more in there, especially related to revenues.

If I’m, you know, the bar is there, I would expect to see a higher percentage of inventory. So it’ll be interesting to find out, is it working back to back kind of deals?

It’s all in the minimum inventory kind of thing. So that’s something I would look into, just just to make sure that you’re not gonna, when you buy it, you don’t have to jump in on something you have in the big cash cash amount there to buy some inventory, you know, to to to bolster it. So that’s something I would look into. And apart from that, I think all other comments have been said already. Good file. Good presentation. Good luck with it.

Yeah. It was a great presentation. Just a couple of other things on the model just to kinda touch on.

I think you’ve been editing the model a little bit, which is fine. But you you’ve put real estate in current assets, which I think skewing your net current assets working capital number.

Real real estate will always be in the fixed asset column.

So when you strip that out, you might find your working capital I think Karl mentioned this on the cash. You might find the working capital, you know, is a little bit, low.

And, obviously, if you’re looking to scale this business quite quickly and, you know, putting a sales and marketing team, you might need a top up of working capital to give you fuel in the engine.

Again, the beauty of the SBA is they will lend you working capital on top of the funds to actually buy the business. So, again, I’m not worried about it. I just thought I’d mention that in terms of of of the use of model.

Dave Evans asked a really good question, about the sales and marketing team.

How much would it cost, and can the business afford it? I’ve I’ve got an answer to that, Jason, and I’ll I’ll let you I’ll let you answer that if you like.

Yeah. Sure thing. In our calculations, we can’t afford to start scaling up a dedicated sales and marketing team.

Splitting that between the GM is something we’ve run the numbers on, and, you know, it is feasible. It’s also sort of core to to the the cornerstone of the the growth expansion plan. I I’d love to hear your thoughts, though, Carl.

Yeah. Same same with me. I I would go fractional.

At this point, I think once you get I think you you could quickly double the EBITDA in this business over the next year or so, by going fractional and by partnering with other people. I I think when you get to eight hundred to a million dollars of EBITDA, you know, you’re gonna have more than enough cash flow to support a sales and marketing team, and all that’s gonna do is drive more revenue and drive more margin for you. So I see it more as an investment rather than a cost, but I I would do it, on a on a slow burn, initially. Are you gonna spend any time in this business, or are you looking purely to be an owner investor?

Looking to be a purely owner investor, but that is gonna really come down to the first ninety days. And to that point, we’ve got a pretty crisp ninety day plan arranged in the letter of intent that we’ve submitted, that really outlines our expectations of the seller and how we expect to move him into retirement and us into a winning position.

Yeah. Perfect. Cool. Alrighty.

If you’ve got we got a few more minutes left on this before we vote, but let’s go to, yeah, Gary’s mentioned, now I’m missing something.

Why is the real estate in current assets? Yeah. I I just spoke to that.

Yeah. I think it’s just a glitch in the model that he’s used. But, yeah, real estate is a fixed asset. So you’ll you’ll see a slight change in the working capital position, but you can go back and you can you you can recalculate it. So, let’s go to Eldon.

Yeah. It just struck me that, maybe, more of the sales that have been happening are associated with his contacts in that country club. And I didn’t know, you might try to try to think about how you can, kinda keep them roped into the deal for a while to help you out that way, to give them incentives to bring deals to you.

Mhmm.

Yeah. That’s a that’s a great call out. We feel like that is obviously a more price elastic, market there. We did discuss that and, you know, sort of jokingly said, oh, you’re president now.

That that’s bringing in a lot of business. Right? He was pretty adamant that he’s not yet tapped into that. So in our minds, that could be a good opportunity saying, hey.

While we move you to retirement, why don’t you tell all your friends at the country club about the business you just sold and your new partners? So I think it’s a really smart call out to make sure that he’s, leveraged in that proper way, and we we frame it that way.

Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Last last question comment. I’ll get to Clive. Clive got some really good ideas around the sales and marketing piece.

So, Clive, I’ll let you speak to that, and then we’ll we’ll vote and go on to deal two. Clive?

Yeah. Hi, Jason. Excellent presentation. Deck, it was, just echoing what everybody else said. Thought, you were very smooth with that one. I’ve I can see you got, obviously, ten customers. So, I know there’s been a lot of talk about sales.

In relation plus potentially marketing. What what are your targets in relation to this? Because I I saw I thought it was quite neat the way you’d, introduced, obviously, that analysis around your competitors. So what exactly are you looking to achieve? Because that’s really the answer you gotta solve before you start determining as to what you need for your sales, team or what you might need.

Yeah. Yeah. And that’s a really good cause. So that sort of represents the it’s an obviously different business model where it has been more direct to consumer, so that represents the customers he served this year.

And the average job we’ve been told is, and this is to your question, Dan, between two hundred and fifty to three hundred and fifty thousand dollars that they would do, they can turn that around roughly in in three to four weeks, depending on how we scale up the workforce. So that’s some of the math we’re working with and, you know, evaluating as an addendum to the way we’re signing the letter just so we’ve got some good crisp expectations about, what we would expect, especially if there’s gonna be any earn out and more creative financing in play. Is that helpful? Does that answer your question?

Yeah. Yeah. It does we just go partly towards that. Absolutely. And I think you you’re in a good space.

And I think that, you know, I love the fact that you’re in premium. And I think that, yeah, there’s a bunch of stuff you could do, in relation to, the business and and particularly in terms of premium builders and maybe getting into those because they will bring I know other businesses certainly in UK that, align themselves when they’re at premium end to certain smaller construction firms that do some premium, properties. And, they that works very, very well. I’ve also seen a, a product which is, I’m trying to remember some months ago now, but, I thought it was quite neat where you could actually upload pictures of your property and then get the AI almost to help to design it for you online as well. So if you’re looking at digital assets, it might be something like that might help. But I’m also intrigued as to the four employees you have as to who they are, what they do, and what they do now.

Yeah. They are younger in nature. Hold on just a second. I don’t have the the breakdown, but essentially you have, their version of a foreman, you have a designer, and then you have an operations, sort of, mastermind on the team.

Is the current exploit.

They are they are younger in nature, so more, So there’s a possibility of being quite driven as a team.

Okay. Yeah. I don’t wanna take too much time, but I’m just thinking in terms of that, you could obviously develop that team maybe to, certainly, assist with some of the sales and some of the, without going to too much exceptional, cost there. But I thought it was a it’s a solid business. Like, I’ll I’ll echo echo what everybody else thought. I probably had it a little bit lower in terms of valuation, probably a couple of hundred thousand, but they’re all thereabouts.

Cool. Right. Thank you for that. And, Clive, I love your AI, uploading of designs and stuff for sales and marketing purposes.

I I had a friend at business school create a company that did just that, and he sold it for a boatload of money to B and Q, which was a really, really cool deal. So, so yeah. I think there’s there’s so much so I think you could do with this business. It’s probably one of the best deals I’ve seen.

And, like, I’m just thrilled. We’ve got some deals, which is really cool, but this is a great deal, to kinda kick start the call off and kick start the year. Lots of green lights. Green light sixties, seventies.

That’s where I voted, which is really, really cool. Yeah. John Evans made a comment about the working capital echoing what I said. Yeah.

I think, just recalculate the working capital numbers. The the real estate is in the right section. I’m on my laptop in my library, so, my eyes aren’t the best these days. So I I I I missed that.

But, yeah, the real estate is in the right in the right area. My my bad.

But, no, great deal to kick us off. Thank you very much, guys, for the again, excellent pitch and excellent analysis.

Yeah. I don’t think there’s any reason why you can’t close this deal. And keep us posted, and we’ll, you know, we’ll help you get this over the line. If you’re gonna go an SBA route, give David Marcantonio a call. Yeah. He’d he’d crush this for you. This is definitely a deal that he can get, get done for you.